How do you create meaningful connections? Jill Rees of West County Health Centers, one of CCI's longtime collaborators, shares how she builds rapport with her patients, so that she can hear deeply authentic stories and get to the “why” behind their answers. Jill advises us to sit down, be real, and listen patiently. If you are looking to better engage end users, clients, or staff, there will be a ton of takeaways from this discussion for you.
How do you create meaningful connections? Jill Rees of West County Health Centers, one of CCI's longtime collaborators, shares how she builds rapport with her patients, so that she can hear deeply authentic stories and get to the “why” behind their answers. Jill advises us to sit down, be real, and listen patiently. If you are looking to better engage end users, clients, or staff, there will be a ton of takeaways from this discussion for you.
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This is an automated transcript. Please excuse any errors or hilarious mistakes.
I'd like to welcome Jill and thank you for taking time to be with us today.
why don't we start out, let me just ask you why, why, why you're so passionate about this topic of building rapport with people about making a connection with somebody else. Why is that valuable in the context of this kind of work?
Uh, easy, because it's about connection, you know, all of life is about connection. And so how do we connect with one another? Is that the basis of anything we want to accomplish in life? So, so if we're trying to get data, we're trying to do research and we want to get the real story. We want to get the authentic story. You, you can't get it from being behind a clipboard. You can't get it. You can kind of get a hint on a written survey, but if you really want to get a qualitative in-depth snapshot of what something's like for someone else, you, you've got to find a way to connect. And so building that rapport and that connection, um, matters tremendously. So I like to say you got to be real to get real. So you've got to show up with yourself. Um, so one of the ways I just did it now was I told everyone I was a little bit nervous and that was me just being real. And it helped me just exhale, be real with you for a minute. Now, now, now we're talking a little bit, so, um, that's one example of that. So it, it matters, it matters in everything and I'm probably preaching to the choir about that. Um,
No, I think, I mean, I think it's worth, I think, especially in the fast paced world work world that everyone lives in while we may believe it and we may feel it. reminding yourself to do that when you're actually with someone and in the moment of stress. And I, I scheduled this research, I scheduled this interview, do I really have to, I got to get to this other place. How do you, you know, release that nervousness and that stress and become, you know, be with that person and, and, and be authentic. I think it's really important. What is the, what is the alternative if you're not being real and, and, and authentic, or, um, sorry, let's just stay with that being real. You gotta be real to, um, uh, to get real. What is the opposite? How do people know if it's not happening?
Uh, I think probably all of us can harken to some experience where we had, where we felt the sales person trying to sell us something that didn't feel real, or that interaction on the phone with the receptionist that didn't, that didn't feel real or connective. And so we know what that is to receive it. And we know that it doesn't work. It just kinda sucks. It's not great. Um, so yeah,
And I think that's great. What you just said is you feel it you've definitely felt it. And so, um, realize that if the other person is feeling like that, you're immediately putting up barriers and going, Oh, I'm not going to say much. Or, you know, when will it be over and you're going to remain at a surface level for sure. Okay. Nice. Cool. What else? Um, take us through kind of the first thing you think about when you are with somebody or, or with a group.
Cool. So how about, let's just use a, an example. So I'm sitting in my office comes up on the instant message. Hey, can you come over to the clinic? There's a patient here who has some suicidal ideation. So this is someone I've never met. I'm about to walk into an exam room. It's not my office. And it's someone who's, you know, got some suicidal ideation. That's kind of what I know. So now I need to go in and it's my job to assess this person. How suicidal are they? Do I need to, what, what should we do here? So I'm not going to get a real answer if I don't show up in a real way. So I get handed off by the medical provider. Hi, this is jewelry. She's on our team. Here you go. And the medical provider leaves room. So now I'm in there.
So the first thing I'm doing on my way over is I'm taking some deep breaths because I need to get myself grounded. I need to get myself grounded, to be able to walk in the room and be myself. I'm going to walk in the room, keep in mind. There's a lot of different studies, but communication is not just words. You've heard all this. What is it? Two thirds not, um, is nonverbal communication. So my body language and my tone are huge, right? So one of the first things I'm going to do is extend a hand and I'm going to sit down. So sitting down, why should I sit down? I don't have much time. I'm going to lean against the thing. Please just sit down with someone that conveys a message of I'm here. I have time for you, even if you don't really have time, it still gives that message.
So sitting down, so I'm going to sit down, I'm going to look at them. I'm not going to go. So I hear you're suicidal. I'm going to say, I'm going to find some way to connect with them usually. And I don't do this consciously and it's, and probably most of us don't do this consciously. Um, we have ways that we connect, um, that we don't think about. So it's sort of finding your own style on this. So I might see, I might walk in the room and the I'm going to use a teen in my mind. It's a teen wearing a Depeche mode. T-shirt I might say Depeche mode. Wow. That's that's my generation. You listen to their passion mode. I might try to connect on something like that. So right there, I've, I'm trying to break down that barrier by just connecting by saying, I see you.
I see you got into batch mode. T-shirt you're not all a suicidal ideation, right? This is a real person here. I'm conveying that by saying that. Um, and then I'm also telling them a little about, about myself. I might use some self-deprecating, uh, things like right there. I just kind of acknowledged my age a bit like, Oh, that's my generation. That was like way back, you know? Um, and so then I'm going to sit down and, and begin a conversation. Um, I might use a little humor or lightheartedness you and I were talking yesterday, Chris, about like, well, some people say when I'm not funny and you don't have to be funny, it's more about just bringing a little lightness to a situation. Um, it could be like the door clicks. It's like, well, I know we just met and now I'm going to ask you some really personal questions. Hahaha. Right. It's like finding some bit of humor in the situation. Um, that's not sarcasm. Right? Cause the sarcasm can be cutting. So it's got to come from a connective place.
Yeah. I think what you said, um, when you started this, all of these, um, kind of, uh, techniques or points that we can all draw on, we draw on them and deploy them with our own personality. We deploy them with how we do it. Um, because we also know people who have been taught to be, uh, relatable and they're, they're making eye contact, but they're staring at you. They're not break. They're not breaking their contact. And so it's not overdoing any of these. It's finding a way to be yourself within these techniques. Yeah. Love it.
Right. Yeah. So it's like finding your own way into it. because in our rush of the day to day, I think we can sometimes skip this step. We're in too big of a hurry. We've got to get it done and we don't slow down just enough to, to let a person know I've got time for you. And I see you, um, people need to, you know, if we're asking, so if we're doing research, so let's get off the suicidal person for a moment. We're just going to talk about, I want to interview some patients about food insecurity. Um, and I want to get their real stories about it with their real experiences. Um, I need to ask that in a way that really says, I see you, I'm interested in you. I'm curious about you.
So how do you do that? So here's a concrete example would be, um, Hey, thank you so much for coming to this. So usually seeing involve some gratitude, but it's, it's, it's gratitude that understands not thanks for showing up. It's like, I know you had to come across town and it's four o'clock, so you'd probably hit some traffic. Thank you for taking the time with me today. Right. So I just let them know. I get, you just came across town to do this with me. Thank you. That's seeing them or, um, acknowledging when they're sharing something that's really personal to say, wow, this sounds, this sounds really personal. This is, you know, doing some reflective listening can help people know they're being seen. Um, yeah. So
That's awesome. That was going to be my main question as does, you know, how does this apply to things outside of the example that you, which is a great example? Cause it's in the extreme, right? It's in high pressure, um, high stress, uh, not a lot of time, uh, environment. And yet the ability to connect with that person, we all kind of intuitively know is going to be one of the main ways you help them, not with the, not with any sort of, you know, forgive all the doctors, forgive me, but not with any like clinical prescription, what would they need to go do now because of this happened, it's connecting with them. Um, and so yeah, that whole notion of, uh, in anything, you know, does this apply with, with staff, with your team or do you keep all this touchy, feely stuff? And the seeing people, I see my staff every day, how can this, how can I get this way? How can I get more authentic feedback from my, from my staff, does this kind of rapport building work?
Um, many years ago I was, I was a coach. I coach basketball and I was also in coaching classes and I'll never forget. Um, the teacher said, you cannot just see your players as rebounds, assists and points. There are people and it's really stuck with me. So we cannot walk into clinic together and see, uh, doctor, provider visit nurse phone call. We are people we need to see just to ask, how was your weekend? And it can be three sentences, but it's like, I see you, you had a weekend. Um, those kinds of things really matter. Um,
Yeah, percent agree. A hundred percent agree. Um, as, uh, my company was getting bigger, uh, and you know, we had a very small company, you know, it's 10 people and 12 and 15, 20, the first time somebody walked by me in the hall and didn't say hi, and how's it going? And then shocked. I was like, well, wait, what's happening here? That person just walked by me. Didn't say anything to each other, hang on, hang on. Like no way everybody is, you know, there's always a chance to communicate. And, and I think it's more than building relationships. I think it sets the tone for all the other times when you're going to work together. When you have a question when you're, when it does matter, uh, in another, in another context, those, those relationships and that being real is already built. It's uh, highly valuable to them.
Yeah. And it's fun. It's meaningful to connect, right? So it's like, Oh, I've got this task. I've got to do this interview. I've got to find out what it's like to be food insecure, check, check, check. That wasn't very fun. That wasn't very meaningful, you know, like it's so, you know, we, that's, what life is, it's called human design, the human, we are hardwired for connection, you know? Um, so finding those neural networks of connection is fun for everybody involved and healing. And also like when we're asking questions, the act of asking the question has, I can't find the right word. It has an impact it's meaningful. It's like, tell me your story. And even, and you think, Oh God, this is going to take too long. No, you can tell a story in five minutes and a grocery line that has a meaningful connection.
And the same when we're doing, when we're gathering information and people's stories about what it's like to be food insecure or to struggle with housing, whatever it is, we're asking them where we're in. It's an experience that they're having. Um, when I was coaching for CCI last spring, I was coaching a great group of, set up a beautiful, um, group interview kind of session. And the clients they were talking to were like, nobody's ever asked me this and their stories just came pouring out and just doing that. That's what life is. Right. You know, that's what makes it meaningful.
Yeah. That's awesome. So let's go to that whole notion of, um, tell me your story. Let's go down into the, um, some of the things we talked about in terms of, you know, you're not, you're not doing a clipboard interview with all of your questions that you want answers to. You're saying, tell me your story. And then what happens? Like what if they don't, what if they don't respond right away? Like what are you going to do?
Um, yeah. I think transparency is key. So like, I might say, whoo, that question totally bombed.
Okay.
You know, or I might say, am I jumping in too soon? Do you need a little more time to think? You know, so I'll kind of like, bring it back on myself. Um, I might try to reboot and say, you know, uh, you know, I, I, so we, we haven't mentioned the word safety and maybe that's because it's, yeah, it's really the container. Right. So establishing some safety around confidentiality and like, who are you telling this to is really important. So if there's, if, if there's something that's not working in an interview, it might be about safety. And so you might need to reboot that. You might need to say, Hey, what's happening right now with curiosity, real curiosity. It's like, I feel like I'm asking a question, but it's not landing right with you. Is do you, do you have some concerns? Is there something you need to about pain? Yeah. Right, exactly. So, um, it's a nonjudgmental curiosity. So as long as you stay curious and transparent, you're going to get what you're going to get there. Um, so hang with it. And so being curious with like, wow, this is really bombing is great.
Right. Right. And I probably, uh, led you in the wrong direction that it's really not working, but what, what do people do more often than not is they'll. And we just started talking about that at the beginning. They'll not wait the time it takes for somebody to formulate their own thoughts. Can you talk a little bit about that?
Yeah. About the, the magical pause. Yeah. Say, you know, uh, so when you ask a question, like, so, you know, what's it like for you on Friday night, you get home from work and there's no food in your refrigerator. Wait, you gotta pause, take a breath because they're thinking about it. So, you know, really just take your own, you know, do some, some of your own breathing. And just, if you need to talk a trick, you can do is like, say the words, take your time. It's telling you to take your time, take your time with the answer. There's no rush. Right? So you're telling yourself there's no rush and it's the way you can, uh, appease that urge to talk. Um,
Yeah, I think that's the, that's the key point I want people to understand here is we are way too fast to fill in the silence with suggestions, alternative ways they could answer the question and all of a sudden your nervousness, you're filling all, all the quiet, thoughtful time in with your own like, Oh, they're not going to answer. I feel awkward. Dah, dah, dah. And what Jill's talking about here is really just realizing that they need time to, especially with any of these topics of food insecurity, employment, housing, substance abuse, like how many of these things are subjects, where we really don't know how to talk about them, to somebody else they're so personal. Um, and so that, that, that comfort in pause and I love, I love your, if you have to talk, say, it's okay, there's no rush. And you're telling yourself, I love that.
I, I also, a lot of I'll say, there's no right or wrong answer. That's one of my stock phrases. No, right. Or wrong answer here. Take your time. Yeah. Um, because also people are having feelings. You may not know what they are, but they're having them as they're thinking about that question. So give space for the feelings, you know, and, and really say it's okay, whatever you're feeling or thinking, anything you want to share is, would be wonderful. You know? So these are just ways that you're helping the person stay with their experience and bring it forward.
Nice. we talked a little bit yesterday about deepening the conversation. Um, what are some ways to do that?
Oh, the a good stock trays. Like if you're taking notes, write down, take your time. There's no rush. There's no right or wrong answer. And tell me more about that, because if you just do, tell me more about that. Say more about that. Um, over and over again, you're going to get deeper in, but you also have to be really listening in order to do that. You can't be thinking about what's my next question, because you'll miss the deepening question. Um, so it takes it's practice. It takes practice. I would suggest practicing at home at the dinner table with someone, you know, how was your day? Tell me more about that. Tell me more, you know, see, see if you can deepen a conversation about what was your highlight of the day today. Um, if you really want to hone the skill,
I love that idea, um, for everybody on the call as well. Um, you can do this in the workplace. Uh, I have a phrase that's your, your colleagues are more interesting than, you know, and looking for the opportunity to sit next to them at the lunch table. Um, if you're taking a break, you know, the fabled water cooler or around the front counter and asking them about, you know, whether it's what they did this weekend, but I like, you know, what are you geeking out on nowadays? Or do you have a hobby I don't know about, or what do you do for a hobby or something like that, waiting through the pause, because mostly people don't believe that they you're really asking to share the richness of their life with you. Um, but when it happens, you know, it's everything from, Oh my gosh, Jen, who I just talked to has a full Luminar apartment and she weaves real wool artifacts.
And I'm like, are you, Oh my gosh, can you take a video and show that to us? That's amazing. What is that like a loom, like, you know, and so that kind of stuff, really, you, you practice that curiosity and it rewards you, it rewards you in the specific situation of research or practice, uh, and it rewards your soul and relationships at work. And, uh, I love it. Yeah. That's practice. It's a, it's a, it's a way of being with people, right? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Um, anything else you want to kind of overview and then we'll open it up for a few questions then things you may want to make sure we, I think you hit on most of what we've talked about.
Yeah. I'm not used to talking this much, so yeah. I'd be more comfortable with people. Ask questions.
This is Michael from CCI. Can you hear me okay? Hey Michael. Yeah. So Jill, I wondered if you could tell me more about one of the examples you gave. Okay. So you talked about interviewing people who might have food insecurity. And I want to ask this question from two dimensions, one, as you or I might be an individual person interviewing someone who might have food insecurity. And second, as you're trying to coach others on your team who might be doing these interviews. So when you conduct that kind of interview, you often feel very self-conscious like, because you may not be like the people you're serving at a health center. So it's not, you're not often one of the members of the same community that you're interviewing.
And then second, you feel bad about wasting that person's time, but maybe they have their own things to attend to. And they might be having a bad experience at your clinic or in your own from your organization. So as you're starting to conduct those interviews, what techniques do you use to help yourself overcome what might be the distance from where you come from to where the client or person you're trying to understand comes from? How do you overcome that sense of almost human person's time, they're busy. And also maybe that person doesn't feel very good about your organization or about their experience, but second, how do you coach others to overcome those things?
Okay, great. Um, thank you for the question. Um, the first word that came to mind was humility. So that's a word we haven't mentioned yet. And I, and I'm, I'm, I'm glad that the question brought that up because I think, um, coming to, so let's just stay with your example. Um, yeah, we need to have a lot of humility talking to this person and not a, an, um, an otherizing. So I would say one of the things I love about human centered design is it's, um, participatory and that we're not doing research to other people. They are co-researchers with us and in, so in the ways that we can help them feel that, um, it can break down those barriers because you're absolutely right. Um, I don't know what it's like to be food insecure and how dare I ask someone, like, in a way it really is, um, uh, it's, it's kind of not right in, on a certain level, right?
It's, it's, otherizing that person. So I do need to take some steps to break that down. Um, and so I, what I also heard in your question, if I got it right, was that, how do I even break that down within myself to go do the interview? Because what comes up is all this resistance like, well, I really shouldn't bother them. I shouldn't, I don't really have any, I can't relate to that and blah, blah, blah. You described like a lot of resistance. So the first thing I want to tell myself is that, um, it's worth getting through this resistance because that story is valuable. It's meaningful. And me asking the question and inviting this story, um, is not only meaningful for me and my agency and this research, but it can be meaningful to this person if I do it well. And that's a worthwhile endeavor.
Um, I think that, uh, acknowledging the shortfalls of the agency is a great way to say, we want to get better at this. Can you help us get better? Um, I really appreciate your time. I know it's a stretch for you. Can I come to you? You know, like any ways that you can acknowledge the, the gift that they're offering and really saying this is a gift you're offering us and the gift that you can return as the researcher in this is the, you know, the interviewer is, is by doing it in such a, uh, loving and open way that we've already been talking about. I think that's the gift that you're giving back. That person may not know it until it's over with. Um, so I would just say the humility, acknowledging the gifts that they're offering, acknowledging the blunders of the agency, and then getting over one's own resistance. Like, Hey, this is worthwhile. I'm going to do it. Um, those are my first suggestions. Um, how does that land and anything to add Chris?
Well, I was going to say that lots of times our own, that own self-talk about why I'm not, can also be your own fear of, of doing the interview poorly of coming off wrong to the other person. So you're fearing for yourself. So you're protecting yourself more so than the other person. Um, and if you can, to your point, if you can push through that and do it in an authentic way. And in fact, your first, one of your first pieces of advice is, um, you know, acknowledging your own inferiority, you know, inferior approach or like that you feel really uncomfortable. I apologize. I'm a little nervous, or I don't know how to do this well, will you help me understand this? You know, you invite them, you give voice to their story. That's empowering. Um, and it's, it's when we, you know, when we're more concerned about ourselves, that it comes off as you know, off-putting because you're, you're, you're keeping yourself at a distance instead of being there with them a little bit.
That's, you know, and how about the whole notion of coaching? I mean, you're coaching us in a way, uh, on the call, I think your point about acknowledging the, uh, the pitfalls of the, you know, the failures of the organization you're working for can show that you're, uh, you're authentic if you acknowledge them, instead of poo-pooing it and going, Oh, well, don't worry about that. That really doesn't matter to this conversation, but to actually go, Oh, I want to hear more about that. That's I apologize for that. Right. And you're, you're giving them you're right about that. We're probably not doing that well. Um, so anyway, that that's good. How about, um, any other points for coaching others? Like, uh, wondering about that. So your, your what's the most effective, efficient way to do it? You know, we always go towards scripting. It's how this is the wording you should use when interviewing someone, is it role playing or simulation?
Oh, great question. No, it's not scripting don't script. You can have some key phrases, but honestly, if, if, um, if, if I'm the person you're coaching and I've got all this resistance, like, Oh, I just don't, I don't want to ask them. I feel bad about myself or whatever. I actually just, as if you're my coach, I just need you to, let me actually talk to you and discharge that what's the resistance here. What's up for you and find out that I'm just afraid. Right? So Chris just touched on the word fear and I'm in a protective stance. So the script can come off as protective, right? Um, it's the script is between me and the interviewer as a protection for me, you can use a script, but not if you haven't done that work to get yourself in the, the humble, uh, authentic place. So when you're coaching someone who's running into that, they've got to do it a little bit of work with themselves to get to that place of humility and openness to have this kind of interview. Or if that person can't get there, then they should just be the one on the computer doing the survey monkey, because, you know, it's, maybe it's not for them to be doing those kinds of interviews.
Nice. And I would say, I think practice, practice, practice. So if you're coaching somebody, it's almost like you can't tell people, I mean, we can give them the tips and the direction, but then having you guys do it in your own office with each other authentically, uh you'll know when it's working, you'll feel it you'll go, Oh, that was really, that was an amazing lunch we just had. Right. Cause we actually connected and talked through some really interesting things, um, that we didn't know. And you were surprised where the conversation went. That's the non-scripted.
Is that enough of an answer for you? That was awesome. Okay. I think, I think doing a role-play could be helpful too, but I think they have to rewind on there. What's coming up for them to start with, so just say, what's coming up for you about doing this interview. Well, I'm afraid. Well, what do you know? And then, and then diving deeper into that. And then once they can clear that they should be able to connect with a role-play and, or some, some script prompts, nice others on the line. Want to dive in with a comment or question?
Hi, this is, yeah, this is great. This is what I need Jamison. And I was interested in the tips and tricks around being authentic and collecting this, you know, in asking these kinds of questions about, say social determinants of health, while you're also collecting information, say through an assessment tool, like a prepared tool, um, that's come up for some of my clients and wondered, um, about your thoughts on that.
Can you, um, give me set the scene in a more concrete way so I could really describe
Definitely, right. So it's a assessment tool that is for social determinants of health and many community health centers are using it or similar ones to collect information about their populations that they serve at the population level, as well as at the individual level. So they can better refer folks and get them and have the information on the assessment, inform their care. Um, and so they need to like be on a computer, usually filling out this prepared tool while they're asking the questions on it, which are about food insecurity, you know, substance use and things like that. Or they can do it on paper too. So that's the scenario.
Okay. And so, um, they're being handed a clipboard or here's the iPad or here's this computer kiosk. Can you answer these questions?
It could be that way. Or it could be that the care coordinator, case manager is asking the questions just like you would, but they're filling out the assessments.
Right, right. Yeah. So, um, so it's tricky. That's really tricky, right? Because there's this, I've, I've seen this SDOH, you know, it's, it's a mother of a, of a form and an assessment and we need to get it written down and it's data and so on. So when I've had to do things like that, like I've, I, we were doing, uh, priests pre-site intake assessments, and I needed to be on the computer simultaneously. Um, I actually brought the patient closer to me, so they couldn't see my screen, that we were sort of a little bit side by side. And I said, this is going to feel awkward. I'm going to want to type, I have to type while we talk. Um, so I actually just tried to acknowledge basically how awkward and kind of bad it was, you know? And I'm going to ask you really personal questions while typing. So I could imagine if I'm sitting with someone I'm writing on a clipboard, say, Hey, I know I'm asking some personal questions, um, and I'm gonna write down some answers, but I'm also going to take some pauses in case you need a moment or you want to fill in anything that I'm not asking. So I will try to intentionally acknowledge it and then slow it down. So that's one suggestion. Um,
I will Jill also note, um, from the, there's been a number of organizations that I've worked with, um, using things like prepare, and they're a little frustrated because the results of their assessment are not jiving with the numbers. They know the population have. So they, you know, their, their community, they serve might be at 5% or more food insecure. And they're, you know, even with thousands of those forms assessed individually, they're reading out one and a half, 2%. And so the, the only reason I say that is we have to acknowledge that sometimes those tools that are, that we, that we use because they're approved and sanctioned by governing bodies, they don't work. They're not giving you the data. And I think this is a great question. I don't have the answer, but I think Joe has, uh, you know, has a little bit of a, sorry, my computer is ringing.
Um, Jill has a little bit of an insight there about you have to break down the awkwardness cause the awkwardness leads to poor data and non connection and non connection leads to you're doing all that work. And you're actually not finding out what you want to find out. So I would challenge the whole group and even, you know, CCI to some extent is what is a way to make a S D O H quote surveys or intake forms or whatever we say, even intake forms. And in many organizations are the same thing. It's like, okay, let me get all your data in here. And for the person doing the data, it's just data collection. But for the person experiencing it, it's like I've, I'm being de-humanized right now for intake into the system. Um, and if we can't acknowledge that and we can't connect with that person, we're going to get worse outcomes. That's, we're not going to get the outcomes we want. What do you think Joe?
Uh, Wendy looked like she had something
I realized that I'm, I, you know, evidence-based thinker, so yeah, anything you have on that that's that is showing, um, that what you just shared with us would be helpful that maybe the prepare tool, et cetera, is not producing factual information. Um, and yeah, another thing that I saw care coordinators do is they would just use paper and you answer the questions that way, and then later put them into the computer if they felt like the computer was off putting. Um, but that of course takes more time. So really good discussion. Thank you.
Is that one of the reasons you asked Wendy because you saw something in the human centered, more empathetic interviewing that might support that, or did you just see a conflict in that approach versus a, uh, prepare protocol? Why did you ask the question?
I saw the resistance on the part of the care coordinators to doing it, and they were, um, then kind of coached by someone who was pretty good at it. And I think they did Jill take in some of your tips. I think there was more of a side by side, more of a like apologize. There was also the trick of just filling it in later and kind of chicken scratch on a piece of paper. They tried a number of different things that they did get comfortable with it. Um, but these were very, very empathetic, like, you know, great, um, connecting kinds of care coordinators and they found a way to incorporate it.
Nice. Thanks Wendy, for sharing that
You jump in on this and I thank you, Wendy, for bringing it up because we're facing a very similar problem pain point in our agency because we're a big community action agency and have to do an intake form around income, sexual orientation and gender identity and know ethnicity and country of origin and, um, immigration status all at once is an original intake form. And so we're actually leading some human centered design activities with that group because we want them to really think through their approach to that form. And so we don't have the answers yet, but that's the process we're about to start next week and having them think through that. And just also considering the setting, which the physical space within which they're doing it because they were doing it in an open like childcare center setting and the family support advocates who were, are currently doing it don't have any training in like motivational interviewing or reflective listening.
So it very much has been a tool for data collection that really isn't serving the families and the staff feel really uncomfortable doing it. Um, so, but also just thinking about the different dimensions of the problem. Um, so like what's on the form itself, but also setting and also staff skill set and things like that. And then, Oh, sorry. I have one more thing to add. So that's like our agency by intake and then I also do some health coaching with students. And so we have a very set form for obesity prevention that we're supposed to go through and what I've done and I have more flexibility is we created a sheet of topics. So when the client first comes in, we welcome them and then say, what would you like to talk about? So they get to set the tone of, and they circle the different topics on the list that they want to talk about. And so as I go through the intake, I acknowledge this is a section where you also wanted to learn about stress management as I see because you circled it here. So let's spend a little more time here versus just asking how stressed are you on a scale of one to 10? Okay, great. Check the box, move on.
Yeah. And another, like using open-ended questions. So it used to be like, how many servings of fruit and vegetables do they get at each meal? So instead of asking, like, do you eat fruit at breakfast? I just say, tell me about your morning. And then I ask, tell me about that meal. And so it just feels a little bit less clinical
And you're probably getting more real answers, right? Yeah. Yeah. So you're getting authentic answers and you're getting more useful data. You know, one of the things that's coming to mind is similarly I met a FQHC and so we have the exact forms you're talking about, like, have we done those forms? Like I think it was, so this group that's working on it, it's like the first thing I'd like, you know, perhaps an experiential exercise would be pass out the forms. All right. Everybody do form. All right. What did that feel like to fill out that form in this room? Um, what was that like for you and just start working with one's own experience of how it is to be handed this form, asking me my gender or my food insecurity all on one page and I just walked in here. Um, you know, I think people do well with information.
So I also think it's helpful to tell people why we're asking, even if it's a little paragraph above that section of the form. Um, here's why we're asking this. Cause we know why one is we it's part of our funding and we're required, but we're also asking because hopefully it's actually helping us do a better job and we can make a case for that. Um, not a case for it, but we can speak to that.
Absolutely. That's awesome.